Recent Members Introductions

>>Why havent we- in the last 6000 yrs, tried to fix the world TOGETHER?

That is a good question. I don't have the answers to such a large question, and to oversimplify matters in terms of a single issue (gender in this case) is to grossly understate the human condition.

>>If you figure out how to get a fair representation of genders in Politics and Business- I'd be the first to sign up with your program!

Well, let me tell you how I go about it. I make the positive change in my own life, in the way I try to affect others, and in my support of across the board equality. You know that old adage "change begins at home"? It may sound hackneyed but it happens to be true. Inverting a disparate situation is no answer - it's reactionary and sexist. Help those around you, treat everyone equally, and teach your children well. That is the only path to true, longlasting change. I often get frustrated at the inequities and persecution that takes place in the world, and while I can try to make what difference I can in the here and now, as I get older I realize more and more that change needs to come from individuals and takes time. A shift in gender dominance is not only impractical, it is not a solution. If we were to be living during the era of african american slavery, could you with a straight face tell me that the solution would be to make the black community the slave masters and the whites the slaves? You see how ludicrous an idea this is, I'm sure. Equality is a goal worth striving for, not an inversion of an unfair power structure.

In regards to my comments on time, think about how far we have come this century. Really think about it, in terms of the life of the planet and the life of our species. Things are moving at a pace which would have been inconceivable only a few hundred years ago. From here I know it sometimes seems like things are not moving forward in terms of equality; but let me assure you that in the long view they are. Humanity still has some major hurdles to go through before we see if we're really going to make it to the next level in our evolution, but if people strive to make changes within themselves, it can happen.

>>I am glad that you run with an enlightened male crowd (or conversly an unenlightened female crowd)

Really, that's not very subtle of a barb and while I don't appreciate it, it's not going to get a rise out of me.

>>but you cant really be saying that men (as a whole) are on a path of Growth and change?

I never said that. I don't believe that the bulk of humanity are on a path of growth and change regardless of gender. However, like I said, I believe that the most profound change happens within one's self and home, and if I was to proselytize my message of peace to the world I suspect it would have more of a polarizing effect than a rallying one. The way one lives one's life is reflected in one's actions and deeds.

>>C'mon- Monday night football, Nascar, Automatic rifles for hunting??

Funnily, I don't really enjoy any of those things but I know both men and women in 3D and on tribe who do. No, not just one woman, I've actually been surprised at the number of women who like football because it doesn't interest me at all. Now, of course I could point out some other activities I don't particularly like that are generally associated as female interests (rampant consumerism, IE "shopaholics", unhealthy obsession with one's physical appearance) but if we look at those things we find that those too are things that affect people across the board regardless of gender.

>>I thank the Goddess for Men on a path of Spiritual Growth- but I've found them the exception, not the rule.

I agree but I have to extend it to human beings period. I don't believe that in every fundamentalist household there is a domineering religously oppressive husband and a meek wife who secretly would be frolicking in the forest praising Diana if it wasn't for her husband. Let's be honest and realize that these fundamentalist men were often raised by fundamentalist parents. Parents as in both of them. Women are just as complicit as men in the state of affairs of childrearing and the instillment of values.

>>you havent addressed the domestic abuse problems, or the violent crimes problems Saul.

Now I can't remember if you said domestic violence or domestic abuse initially. Abuse happens within the household constantly, from both sides. It's a sad fact that domestic abuse of an emotional, physical, and sexual nature occurs in all kinds of relationships, not just from men perpetrated on women. It's an ugly secret of the gay and lesbian population that partner abuse happens in both gay male and gay female relationships as well as in the traditional hetero relationship model. Historically the physically (as opposed to emotionally) violent abuse in heterosexual relationships has come from the male partner because men in general are physically larger and stronger than women. I would be entirely remiss if this fact made me ignore the rampant abuse of both genders of one another in various ways. I have known men and women who were abused by men and women, physically, sexually, and physically. Unfortunately abuse is something that occurs in far too many relationships. Physical domestic violence by women against men may in fact be far higher than we suspect; there is a stigma attached to being in a passive abused position that is widely believed to contribute to the underreporting of such incidents by men.

As for violent crime, I think that violent crime is often the last resort of a desperate individual in poor circumstances. Because of cultural roles, the general male edge in size and strength, women may turn to other avenues more often than men in cases of desperation. I think if you look at prostitution statistics, you will see that there are many more female prostitutes than male. Does this lead me to believe that women are somehow inclined to be prostitutes? I think not. It gives me an example of what people do when faced by hopelessness, hard times, and the options which are made available to them when they feel they have hit bottom.

Allow me to inroduce myself! I am Topper! I was invited by Raven Dragonsbard to join last year, but the local carrier need an overhaul and until now I haven't been able to! I've been reading posts here for a couple of months now and am glad to be a part of this tribe! Thank you Tatood Shaman for letting me in!!

I have a reply to this thread.

"C'mon- Monday night football, Nascar, Automatic rifles for hunting??"

OK. Remember Athena, who hunted with the bow. It was the weapon of choice at the time. While I have no automatic weapons, I am a hunter and so are three of my Children(two sons, three daughters, so yes one of my daughters loves to hunt). Our weapons of choice are 270 rifles-bolt action, three of them, one 30-30 winchester-lever action, three twelve guages. These are weapons of choice during these times. Why? Because they are what is now used. I have used a bow for hunting and fishing, and do fancy myself quite the archer. I have also used blackpowder rifles for hunting big game, and have had successful hunts using them. I have also used a spear for hunting and fishing and have had planty of success with that as well.
As for sports, well I must admit I am not much for auto racing or football. Tae Kwon do is the sport of choice in my home. All of my kids have been in it. My second oldest daughter was the 5 state regional champion for two years in two different divisions and she had to beat boys as well as girls. I've also watched my wife beat a lot of oponents in that ring. Won my share of matches as well. My point? Primal isn't only a male trait. Nor is it a bad trait. I find much of it to be divine, because it is a good part of who I happen to be as a human being. In my opinion, if we start seeing the divine in each other(and I mean actually taking a good hard look), then She will be there for all of us to see. How could we miss her????

it is so , there are different male and female traits . i also asked the question in some pagan tribes , where the discusions go about the ''balance'' between male and female , ''Goddess' and 'God''. which are the ''male qualities '' , which can't be found in the FEMALE principle ? Is it aggresion , dominance , competition , one--sided emphasis on intellect / mind / reason / physical realm , materialistic mentality , etc ...... are these '' male qualities ' or 'defects' ? can anyone tell me what the heck are ' typically male '' qualities which are not to be found in women / THE DIVINE FEMININE ?

T and all~

thank you all for the 'welcome'. I didnt realize (although I should by now) that my introduction would cause such a....... reaction. I dont think I've said anything "insulting", everything in all my posts are just my opinion.

I just heard about a test given in middle schools regarding the ratio of calling on boys vs girls during class. When the ratio was evened out (giving girls more attention than previously) girls excelled at all the classes- the boys fell behind. The reaction?-- "Oh the poor boys, they need extra attention, this proves it" It was not "good for the girls, see what they can accomplished when the arena is not tilted against them." This is the same response I get when I posit that women are less fucked up than men, that men (through patriarchy) have fucked up- the world, women, and men. This is the same response I get when I say that maybe men are different than women, and that maybe we have traits that make us better (and worse) at certain things.

I guess I should just get used to it.


Jonathan